In Last Interview, Pope Recounted the Lie He Always Regretted

by CNS · Published April 24, 2025 · Updated April 24, 2025

This screengrab shows Giovanni Scifoni, an Italian actor, speaking with Pope Francis at the Vatican during the pope’s last formal interview Jan. 29, 2025. The full interview was aired on April 22 by the Italian broadcaster, Mediaset 1, on its news segment, Le Iene. Msgr. Krzysztof Nykiel, regent of the Apostolic Penitentiary, can be seen far right. His office arranged the interview as part of a video project for Lent. (CNS photo/courtesy of Mediaset 1)

By Carol Glatz, CNS – In Pope Francis’ last formal interview before he died, he shared the one lifelong regret he had never forgiven himself for: lying to avoid seeing an old family acquaintance because he was too busy.

The Apostolic Penitentiary, a Vatican court dealing with matters related to the sacrament of confession and to indulgences, asked the Italian actor, Giovanni Scifoni, to do a video project for social media in preparation for Lent.

“The project involved meeting with people who have committed very serious actions against themselves and others, for example, mafia killers or former drug addicts,” the Italian broadcaster, Mediaset 1, said in a press release on April 22.

The actor asked each person the same question: “Is there anything in your life that you do not forgive yourself for?” it said. “The question was also finally put to Pope Francis, who was interviewed for the occasion in the small room adjoining the Paul VI Hall at the Vatican” Jan. 29.

The pope’s answer and the full interview was aired by Mediaset 1 on its news program, Le Iene, on April 22, saying it was the last interview given by Pope Francis. The pope had come down with bronchitis in early February, was admitted to Rome’s Gemelli hospital Feb. 14, discharged March 23 and died April 21.

Responding to the question about what he has never been able to forgive himself for, the pope said it happened when he was the rector of the Philosophical and Theological Faculty of San Miguel, a college of the Jesuits, in Buenos Aires, Argentina. He served as rector there from 1980 to 1986 when he was in his mid- to late-40s.

“There was a woman, a Sicilian woman, a migrant, who had lost her husband in the war and she used to help my mom, two, three times a week,” he said.

She made a surprise visit to the college while he was serving as rector there, he said. When staff at the gate called him to say the woman had come by to say hello, “I said I was not there.”

This lie ended up being a source of great pain, he said, and as the years went by and he became archbishop of Buenos Aires, “her son and daughter came to greet me and then I made her come visit.”

“It was a joy to meet that woman but I never forgave myself for saying no to her because I was busy and so many other things. That memory always comes back,” he said, adding that he always carries a small medallion the woman gave him before she died.

“I carry it every day with me, and I remember what I never forgave myself for when I refused to welcome her,” the pope said.

In the rest of the interview, the pope discussed themes he frequently touched upon during his pontificate, such as God’s infinite mercy and his willingness to always forgive everyone and everything. “We are the ones who don’t want to be forgiven.”

God’s mercy is so great, he said, that he even forgave Judas. When asked, “What about the devil?” the pope said, “the problem is the devil has never wanted to be forgiven. That is the problem.”

If all the “great villains of history,” such as Adolf Hitler, “had sincerely asked for forgiveness a second before they died, would we find them in heaven together with us?” Scifoni asked.

Pope Francis responded, joking, “Well, maybe they will be in third class,” and laughed. Speaking seriously, he said, things change in heaven. “Everyone feels like a child of God. God never gets tired of forgiving.”

Scifoni asked about shame, saying, “There are some things I am ashamed of.”

The pope said, “Shame is a very beautiful thing. To be ashamed of one’s sins, of one’s failures, that is a great virtue.”

A mafia hitman Scifoni interviewed said forgiveness is too easy, and he wasn’t interested in it. The pope said a person like that wants something deeper, “an itinerary of forgiveness.” An example was someone he was was going to be baptising in a few days — “a person who killed his family. In prison he found faith and now he asked for baptism.”

The pope said, “To be forgiven is so beautiful, beautiful, beautiful and to forgive is a great act of humanity.”

It may be difficult to forgive, but “we have to distinguish: it is one thing to forgive, another thing to forget. One cannot forget. But to forgive in remembrance is very important,” he said.