Lord Cardinals

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  • Could you please quote where you read “Lord Cardinals”. What is your source?

  • Fr. John Keough

    I too would love to learn where Sr. Sue read this. I have searched for it, but to no avail. I have read the full homily given by the Pope and the only thing that I see him addressing them as is “my dear brother Cardinals.”

    But why stop here? perhaps Sr. Sue should spearhead a movement to have the title of “your Worship” which is given to Magistrates in this country abolished too.

  • Fr. John Keough

    I have now also read the Pope’s address to the new Cardinals, and still not a single mention of “Lord Cardinals!”

    Furthermore, to set the good sister’s mind at ease, the Pope distinctly talks to them about servant leadership in his address in the light of James and John wanting glory above the other Apostles, and so the Holy Father states: “This episode gives Jesus a way to address each of the disciples and “to call them to himself”, almost to pull them in, to form them into one indivisible body with him, and to indicate which is the path to real glory, that of God: “You know that those who are supposed to rule over the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be slave of all” (Mk 10:42-44).”

    Perhaps Sr. Sue should read his address and homily for herself before making the comments that she does?

  • Fr John, you just beat me to it. I was about to also draw the writers attention to that reference in the Pope’s address to the Gospel of Mark and provide a link to read the entire address. http://bit.ly/xN57vD

    Since posing this question I have searched the Internet to find anywhere the Pope made reference to Lord Cardinals and find none.

  • John

    Well if that’s the case a letter should be written by Sr. Sue apologising for this erroneous piece. It paints the Holy Father in a very poor light. But perhaps then this was its intention?

    If Sr. Sue doesn’t apologise then the responsibility clearly lies with the editor to ensure that the error is corrected.

  • John

    Just goes to show you that you shouldn’t believe everything that you read. Even if it is in a Catholic newspaper….

  • P.R.Margeot

    As some one said, writers are ‘blissfully unaware’ of comments made after the article is published in the SC. I suggest the SC lets all future contributors/writers know about the site.They would then be able to follow the comments and reply to questions. Just an idea.
    I also think that Sr.Sue Rakoczy should let us know her source. My bet is that we won’t have any.
    Have a good week.

  • Paul, good point. Sadly not all articles from the print edition become available for online comment like this. An example is the article by Claire Mathieson, from 15 Feb 2012, which is titled “Our Conscience Reigns Supreme” and, as of this morning, is not available for comment in this forum.

    For obvious reasons I know that it cannot be made available online in this forum while readers are required to pay for the printed or digital version of the newspaper. I would however have thought that once that edition of the newspaper is replaced with a new edition, all articles in the replaced edition should become available for online viewing and commenting.

    Having said this, I must of course also wonder why content, from the current edition of the newspaper, is available online for free, when readers have had to pay for the printed or digital subscription.

  • One other point. Paul, I see you refer to Sue as Sr Sue.

    I think that contributors/writers full proper title should be used. I did not know, for example, that Michael Shackleton was a priest or that Sue was a nun. Why are priests and religious not identifying themselves proudly as such? In the absence of such I assume they are lay people like us.

  • Fr. John Keough

    @ Mark

    Michael Shackleton left the priesthood many years ago. Sr. Sue is a member of the Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (I think) and, as far as I know, she lectures at Cedara.

  • For the record, this was a blog post which does not appear in the newspaper.

    Mr Nel, the business model whereby newspapers make (or made) their entire content available on the Internet has destroyed the industry to such an extent that some experts believe than within ten years there wont be printed newspapers. I’m slightly more optimistic, but some people in leading SA newspapers have glanced admiringly at our wisdom to keep most of our content off the website.

    An archive of past Southern Cross editions, going back a couple of years, is available to subscribers to our digital edition. https://www.scross.co.za/subscribe/

  • Thanks Mr. Simmermacher, I am a digital subscriber and do know of the online content, plus archives.

    I was referring more specifically to Paul’s comment about being able to comment online on The Southern Cross articles. I was highlighting to Paul the fact that not all content becomes available online in this forum.

    I see we do agree on one thing! I do not believe that electronic books, newspapers, etc., will replace print entirely, even with the introduction of portable electronic readers such as Kindle, iPad, etc. (As an aside, I think the bigger threat to the print industry is actually a complete failure of people to actually read anything today which is not a short “soundbite” of info.)

  • Mr Simmermacher, … just as you thought I was going to let it slide…

    This Blog Post is on the Home Page of The Southern Cross and therefore, print or not, it is associated directly with The Southern Cross.

    So the writer should be asked to provide her source. If she cannot do so she should apologise in this forum, in addition to issuing another Blog post which has an equivalent level of exposure on this website, for stating that she had read that the Pope had used the term “Lord Cardinals”.

  • P.R.Margeot

    @Mark, on the 27th : I could not agree more with you that Priests and Religious should always, at all times, be clearly identified as such by all. They should have the courage( I do not see any other reason) to show their colours, to be proud of being a Priest, a Catholic Priest or nun, to always dress accordingly. We need to know who is walking in the corridor or in the street, or who is next to us on a commercial flight.
    Does a priest realize how much ‘business’ he is losing while travelling and living incognito? How many souls could have been saved ?
    I know very well for I am frequently in the company of our priests and I am surprised to see the amount of goodwill and kindness towards priests wearing the cassock. Often people would approach them and ask for a blessing or just say a few kind words. The cassock still inspires tremendous respect in the southern Hemisphere(at least).
    Priests: do not forget that you are NOT any Tom, Dick, and Harry, you are special with awesome powers given at your ordination, and even thgough you may have your faults or weaknesses, you are one notch above the rest of humanity. That is your destiny. This is the time now to start thinking along those lines. Try it : you will be surprised. You would have massive support. You will end up thinking : “why on earth did not we think about it earlier ?”.
    Glorious days are coming to our Holy Church.
    The salvation of souls….

  • Paul: A priest once told me that when he goes to the hospital to visit a parishioner he always allows a lot of extra time for the visit. Reason: Inevitable as he walks through the hospital in his cassock, he is stopped by patients, other visitors, etc., and asked to see other patients. Often he ends up hearing confession, administering last rites and so on, which he had not expected to do. That is what he was ordained to do.

    This is why, although extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are a big help to the priest in taking Holy Communion to the sick, in public places like hospitals, etc., it is better that the priest does this. EMHC cannot hear confession and sick people need to make their confession, not just receive Holy Communion. God wants to heal the whole person.

    I would rather have all the EMHC doing the admin in the parish and seeing to all the mundane task of the parish, so that the priest can be out there making the Sacraments available to those that are in need of them.

  • P.R.Margeot

    @ Mark : your story above has been told to me many times by our priests. The sight of the cassock is a re-assurance to the patients on their beds in hospitals. In C.T. recently, our priest visited an old age Home to visit a lapsed Catholic. Then as he was leaving, the management told him that a man, Catholic , was very ill. He went in , saw him, gave him the last rites and two days later, he died…. Our priests have told me many of those stories.
    Basically, ideally, the Catholic priests should spend his time around the altar, in the confessional, visiting the sick and dying. That’s is why he is a Priest.
    All other functions should be for the faithful to attend to. It makes sense. That’s how it was up to 1962. This is not nostalgia in any way: just common sense. And it was before the full onslaught of Modernism/Liberalism.

  • Let’s pray for this.

  • Joseph

    The issue raised by Sr. Sue Rakoczy is worrying to me to say the least. I can understand that the absence of Royalty in our time has made so many terms of respect a bit misunderstood but more so the society we live in has become one of self actualisation, equal rights and the rest which unfortunately seems to be spilling into the Body of Christ at an unbelievable rate. The ordination of the clergy while I agree with the teaching of Matt 20:24-28 that it is the call to serve I also believe it is the call to herd the flock of Christ. The clergy exercise Christ’s ministry “to teach that which He taught to the Apostles and to bring the Word to the four corners of the earth”.

    A shepherd by nature and dictates of his office is the head and father of his flock. In the epistle to the Ephesians 3:14 St Paul says “For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named …” in Chapter 5:23 St Paul also says “Let women be subject to their husbands, as to the Lord: Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.” The language of the Bible from Genesis to Revelations is the language of marriage, this is because the Church is the bride of the lamb (Revelations 19). In the epistle to the Ephesians St Paul in explaining about the relations of husband and wife says that he speaks of a greater mystery of Christ and His Church.

    You see, the clergy act in persona Christi and in this capacity they can offer the Sacrifice of Christ, because it is only Christ who can offer this Sacrifice. In the priest therefore we see the mystical hand of Christ invisibly extended (Fr Bill Casey) especially when they offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is Christ who commissioned the 12 to feed His sheep and to St Peter He asked him three times the question “Do you love me” at the end of which He said and says to our day “feed my sheep”. The sheep and the shepherd are not one and the same, there is one who is in charge by the direct commissioning by Christ Himself.

    Now to the term lord: the Bible uses the term lord about 3 times to refer to humans and not to the Blessed Trinity. Romans 14.4; 1 Corinthians 8.5; Galatians 4.1 and in these instances it used as a term for one in charge. I think having ascertained in some way that the clergy were commissioned to be in charge then I guess they deserve our respect as “lords” and to the bishops exercising the office of shepherd they become lords of the college of bishops. The fourth commandment after all charges us to “honour your father and mother” and referring to the Church and her hierarchy we honour the fathers (clergy) and our mother (the Church). These terms have been in use in the Church for millennia and we see them especially used in the writings of the saints.

    In my opinion it is not the term “lord” that is a problem but rather the spirit of equality that has pervaded the Catholic body. This spirit is not in the laity only but also in bishops, remember the arguments on the supremacy of the chair of St Peter in preference for collegiality at Vatican II? To this the voice of Christ thunders through the ages “Unless you become like little children … you shall not enter the Kingdom of God”, we should accept to be led. Remember the poem prayer of John Cardinal Newman (last stanza):

    “Meantime, along the narrow rugged path, Thyself hast trod,
    Lead, Savior, lead me home in childlike faith, home to my God.
    To rest forever after earthly strife
    In the calm light of everlasting life.”

    Or the poem of Oswald Chambers:

    “I said to the man who stood at the gate of the years,
    “Give me light that I may tread safely into the unknown.”
    And he replied:
    “Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the hand of God.
    That shall be to you better than light and safer than the unknown.”

    Lets accept to be led, Holy Mother Church has produced great saints and martyrs and has stood indestructible for 2000 years; she will not mislead us to our doom. If we choose to be led then all these things about the way the pope addresses cardinals will not be an issue after all it has been like that for centuries.

  • It seems Sr Sue believes she does not need to provide her source. We must simply take her word for it that the Pope used the term “Lord Cardinals” and accept her rant.

  • P.R.Margeot

    Sister Sue, we would all know your reply. Failing this ,then next time, she might be ignored completely: no comments to be made.

  • I think that we must now accept, after waiting for more than a month for Sr. Sue to disclose her source, that her comment, about Pope Benedict XVI using the term “Lord Cardinals”, is a fabrication and hence the reason for her being unable to provide the source as requested.

  • P.R.Margeot

    We are still waiting ,Sister Sue, for a reply from you. There is however still a possibility that you are “blissfully unaware” of this site( as one reader wrote once).

    I wish Sr Sue a holy pascal Triduum, a joyful day on sunday, but after we all go through the Crucifixion. THAT, in my humble view, is an attitude today: many I know prefer the Resurection, but we somehow would rather prefer there was no Good Friday. Alas, Good Friday has to take place, then the glory and joy of Easter.

    Dear Sr Sue: we know nothing about you. A priest wrote that he thought you taught at Cedara. Can you confirm ? We would like to know. We are also looking forward to your writings. Go well.

  • Themba Shozi

    Sue is one of the finest theologians we have in this country nad abroad. I have had the honour of being her student at Cedara. Can I invite her critics to familiarize themselves with her theological writings which are making a huge contribution to a larger institution, which is SOCIETY. Your church is but one tiny institution replete with male ideologies. Period!

  • Joseph

    @Themba Shozi

    To be a great Theologian demands unwavering faith and such faith is to decreed doctrines (communion of faith) and to the Church as St Paul says in 1 Tim 3:15 “… you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

    A great Theologian attacking falsely the head of the Church (Matt 16:19, Isaiah 22:22) reflects badly;

    Remember a number of [great] theologians have also turned agnostic (such as Prof Bart Ehrman – University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill).

  • @Themba

    Just to add on to what Joseph wrote, the verse clearly states that the church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth”, however, which church? There are so many different “churches” in existence today all claiming to interpret the word of God correctly. My friend, there is only one church which holds the fullness of the truth, and that is the Catholic church. The rest are just denominations, who has partial truths all vying to be recognised as legitimate. Furthermore, to say that we are a tiny institution is an insult to us catholics. We are 1.2 billion strong, and we can trace our history right back to Peter himself. Secondly to reduce our faith to male ideologies just smacks of ignorance, not just of our tradition, but of the bible itself.

  • @Themba

    Herewith a link to Catholic Answers which gives a good explanation as to why the catholic church is the one true church:


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